Elrond and Elros' Childhood
Dec. 17th, 2023 08:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rocky41_7Answer to this ask about the portrayal of Earendil and Elwing as parents.
I was stunned to come into this fandom after finishing the book and find out that Elwing and Earendil are controversial characters. Headcanons and AUs all you want, but the book makes it very clear they are heroes and Tolkien portrays them as heroes (albeit tragic ones)--Earendil slaying Ancalagon and Elwing convincing the Teleri to aid the war effort is more proof of that.
The Feanorians are the closest thing we have to true protagonists in the book and they're fan favorites, so there's a tendency to see other characters (Turgon, Thingol, Dior, Elwing, etc.) through the lens of how well the Feanorians like them or get along with them. If a character has conflict with the Feanorians, they're likely to get the villain treatment in certain circles of the fandom no matter how reasonable their actions were.
Above the cut I'm just going to link here to my tag for Elwing metas from other people.
There's also in some cases, I think, a discomfort with rooting for characters who have done so much wrong (see: "stanning villains" discourse), so in some places there's an effort to downplay what the Feanorians did because of course you can't like a character who is genuinely terrible! So this is where we get into making Dior and Elwing look worse than they are, so that the Feanorians look less bad by comparison (here we get the "good thing the twins were saved from their shitty and neglectful mother!" ...by the dudes who just slaughtered their entire hometown).
This is made easier by the fact that since Silm is told in such an epic fairytale style, we as readers don't have to confront the personal level of the violence the Feanorians committed. We don't see Elwing's reaction to the twins being taken hostage (besides being told that "great was [her] sorrow" for their captivity), we don't see Dior and Nimloth discussing the decision not to respond to the Feanorians' threats, we don't get a description of what Menegroth looked like after it was sacked by the Feanorians, we aren't told about Elrond and Elros trembling in fear as they're taken away by these terrible, violent Elves who killed their grandparents and their uncles and just now their mother and who may very well kill them also. That makes it easier to gloss over the practical realities of what they did (which is why it's something I'm always interested in exploring in fic).
And you're right--there is a draw in the relationship between Elrond and Elros, and Maedhros and Maglor, just because it is so improbable that they would develop any affection at all for each other. And yet, a relationship can be loving and still abusive or unhealthy, and I just cannot buy that it was healthy for Elrond and Elros to be in Maglor's care. Given where Maedhros and Maglor are at this point, they are unlikely to be doing well mentally/emotionally, and even if they were, they can't just detach themselves in the twins' mind from being the monsters who have been haunting Thingol's line for generations (See: Kidnapping and attempted forced marriage of Luthien, attempted murder of Beren, threats to attack Doriath, the Second Kinslaying, killings of Dior and Nimloth, leaving Elured and Elurin to die of exposure in the woods, threats against Elwing, the Third Kinslaying, driving Elwing to suicide). There's also a significant level of cultural loss with Elrond and Elros, which Maedhros and Maglor simply do not have the knowledge to abate. E/E are deprived of being raised in either their maternal or paternal cultures, and with the virtual extinction of the Iathrim by the end of the Third Kinslaying, much of that knowledge is simply lost, and the few people who still hold it (Oropher and his people) are kept away from the twins. Is it any wonder Elrond becomes fascinated with collecting knowledge as an adult?
Personally, I see Maglor's having kept the twins (for however long you imagine, although most of us seem to picture until at least mid-adolescence, if not full adulthood) as a deeply selfish act. They could have released the twins to Gil-galad or Cirdan or Oropher--but they chose not to, for years. I think he loved them--and I think that's why he didn't want to let them go. I think the best and most redeeming thing Maglor ever did with the twins was allowing them to leave to join Gil-galad.
And I do agree with what you said there that Elrond and Elros grew up kindly and generous more in spite of their childhood than because of it.
The Feanorians' descent into villainy in pursuit of their oath is, imo, key to their arc, and one of the most interesting things about it, so I'm not here to downplay it. Even Maedhros and Maglor realize how far gone they are! Maglor himself calls continuing to follow the oath "evil" and says that "less evil shall we do in the breaking" and Maedhros stands with the Silmaril in the end and sees that all the violence and horror he's committed has been for nothing and finds it so unbearable he commits suicide. He literally kills himself because he can't deal with what they've become (or at least, that's how I read it).
The other fascinating thing about these two is how at the end Maglor makes a couple efforts to turn away, to let go of the oath, to do something better--but he can never quite manage it. He's not willing to do it alone, and Maedhros won't do it with him, so he keeps himself stuck on this path until he's the only one left.
Rewriting them as characters who did nothing wrong deprives them of all their complexity. And honestly, you (not you you, anon) just sound like a clown when you're arguing they were justified in sacking a refugee camp because uwu property rights.
With Elwing especially I think there's also a misunderstanding about how exactly things were handled.
Earendil and Elwing are forced to look at the big picture--that after the Third Kinslaying, even if they did return a) How exactly are they supposed to get their kids back from these notably brutal and ruthless warlords?; b) Morgoth is still there. Doing his Morgoth thing. Someone has to make it to Aman to get them to intercede. If Earendil and Elwing turned home instead of continuing West, it would be dooming the rest of the continent--yes, their kids included--to eventual destruction by Morgoth. The fact that Elrond and Elros are able to live so long and raise such prosperous realms is directly related to Earendil and Elwing's decision to keep trying to reach Aman.
You might find it reassuring how in LotR how much connection Elrond is given and expresses with Earendil and Elwing. Clearly he still views them as his parents and if he harbored any resentment (which honestly wouldn't be unreasonable as a child/teenager with a less mature understanding of the situation), it's gone by then.
And finally I just think there's a general fannish fixation on the concept of found family, so people want to force Kidnap Fam into that dynamic so badly they'll completely rewrite Maedhros and Maglor to be E/E's "true" family and ignore all of the horror of what they did leading up to literally kidnapping the twins.
ALL of which is a long-winded way of saying: yeah! you're right..
I was stunned to come into this fandom after finishing the book and find out that Elwing and Earendil are controversial characters. Headcanons and AUs all you want, but the book makes it very clear they are heroes and Tolkien portrays them as heroes (albeit tragic ones)--Earendil slaying Ancalagon and Elwing convincing the Teleri to aid the war effort is more proof of that.
The Feanorians are the closest thing we have to true protagonists in the book and they're fan favorites, so there's a tendency to see other characters (Turgon, Thingol, Dior, Elwing, etc.) through the lens of how well the Feanorians like them or get along with them. If a character has conflict with the Feanorians, they're likely to get the villain treatment in certain circles of the fandom no matter how reasonable their actions were.
Above the cut I'm just going to link here to my tag for Elwing metas from other people.
There's also in some cases, I think, a discomfort with rooting for characters who have done so much wrong (see: "stanning villains" discourse), so in some places there's an effort to downplay what the Feanorians did because of course you can't like a character who is genuinely terrible! So this is where we get into making Dior and Elwing look worse than they are, so that the Feanorians look less bad by comparison (here we get the "good thing the twins were saved from their shitty and neglectful mother!" ...by the dudes who just slaughtered their entire hometown).
This is made easier by the fact that since Silm is told in such an epic fairytale style, we as readers don't have to confront the personal level of the violence the Feanorians committed. We don't see Elwing's reaction to the twins being taken hostage (besides being told that "great was [her] sorrow" for their captivity), we don't see Dior and Nimloth discussing the decision not to respond to the Feanorians' threats, we don't get a description of what Menegroth looked like after it was sacked by the Feanorians, we aren't told about Elrond and Elros trembling in fear as they're taken away by these terrible, violent Elves who killed their grandparents and their uncles and just now their mother and who may very well kill them also. That makes it easier to gloss over the practical realities of what they did (which is why it's something I'm always interested in exploring in fic).
And you're right--there is a draw in the relationship between Elrond and Elros, and Maedhros and Maglor, just because it is so improbable that they would develop any affection at all for each other. And yet, a relationship can be loving and still abusive or unhealthy, and I just cannot buy that it was healthy for Elrond and Elros to be in Maglor's care. Given where Maedhros and Maglor are at this point, they are unlikely to be doing well mentally/emotionally, and even if they were, they can't just detach themselves in the twins' mind from being the monsters who have been haunting Thingol's line for generations (See: Kidnapping and attempted forced marriage of Luthien, attempted murder of Beren, threats to attack Doriath, the Second Kinslaying, killings of Dior and Nimloth, leaving Elured and Elurin to die of exposure in the woods, threats against Elwing, the Third Kinslaying, driving Elwing to suicide). There's also a significant level of cultural loss with Elrond and Elros, which Maedhros and Maglor simply do not have the knowledge to abate. E/E are deprived of being raised in either their maternal or paternal cultures, and with the virtual extinction of the Iathrim by the end of the Third Kinslaying, much of that knowledge is simply lost, and the few people who still hold it (Oropher and his people) are kept away from the twins. Is it any wonder Elrond becomes fascinated with collecting knowledge as an adult?
Personally, I see Maglor's having kept the twins (for however long you imagine, although most of us seem to picture until at least mid-adolescence, if not full adulthood) as a deeply selfish act. They could have released the twins to Gil-galad or Cirdan or Oropher--but they chose not to, for years. I think he loved them--and I think that's why he didn't want to let them go. I think the best and most redeeming thing Maglor ever did with the twins was allowing them to leave to join Gil-galad.
And I do agree with what you said there that Elrond and Elros grew up kindly and generous more in spite of their childhood than because of it.
The Feanorians' descent into villainy in pursuit of their oath is, imo, key to their arc, and one of the most interesting things about it, so I'm not here to downplay it. Even Maedhros and Maglor realize how far gone they are! Maglor himself calls continuing to follow the oath "evil" and says that "less evil shall we do in the breaking" and Maedhros stands with the Silmaril in the end and sees that all the violence and horror he's committed has been for nothing and finds it so unbearable he commits suicide. He literally kills himself because he can't deal with what they've become (or at least, that's how I read it).
The other fascinating thing about these two is how at the end Maglor makes a couple efforts to turn away, to let go of the oath, to do something better--but he can never quite manage it. He's not willing to do it alone, and Maedhros won't do it with him, so he keeps himself stuck on this path until he's the only one left.
Rewriting them as characters who did nothing wrong deprives them of all their complexity. And honestly, you (not you you, anon) just sound like a clown when you're arguing they were justified in sacking a refugee camp because uwu property rights.
With Elwing especially I think there's also a misunderstanding about how exactly things were handled.
- I think people forget that Elwing did not make the decision to keep the Silmaril alone--it was Elwing "and the people of Sirion." This was a group choice, not something Elwing imposed on them.
- I think people forget the Sirionites believed the Silmaril was protecting them. This would have been especially relevant in the minds of two refugee groups who had both survived a brutal and bloody sack of their cities.
- I think people don't realize that the correspondence between Elwing and Maedhros prior to the Third Kinslaying all seems to have taken place during a single voyage of Earendil's. She tells the Feanorians she can't make a final decision on the Silmaril while Earendil (one of the rulers of this city!) is at sea--but they don't wait for his return, they just attack.
Earendil and Elwing are forced to look at the big picture--that after the Third Kinslaying, even if they did return a) How exactly are they supposed to get their kids back from these notably brutal and ruthless warlords?; b) Morgoth is still there. Doing his Morgoth thing. Someone has to make it to Aman to get them to intercede. If Earendil and Elwing turned home instead of continuing West, it would be dooming the rest of the continent--yes, their kids included--to eventual destruction by Morgoth. The fact that Elrond and Elros are able to live so long and raise such prosperous realms is directly related to Earendil and Elwing's decision to keep trying to reach Aman.
You might find it reassuring how in LotR how much connection Elrond is given and expresses with Earendil and Elwing. Clearly he still views them as his parents and if he harbored any resentment (which honestly wouldn't be unreasonable as a child/teenager with a less mature understanding of the situation), it's gone by then.
And finally I just think there's a general fannish fixation on the concept of found family, so people want to force Kidnap Fam into that dynamic so badly they'll completely rewrite Maedhros and Maglor to be E/E's "true" family and ignore all of the horror of what they did leading up to literally kidnapping the twins.
ALL of which is a long-winded way of saying: yeah! you're right..
no subject
Date: 2023-12-20 02:07 am (UTC)I fundamentally disagree with any argument that takes "was she a good mother?" as the sole basis for its ethical judgements! The most unsympathetic and unsupported reading in the world that takes those other facets of her character into account is still better than judging her only on the basis of her motherhood. It feels like such basic feminism 101 --women are more than their reproductive status!-- and yet so many people fail to grasp it…
(Not, btw, that I think you or the anonymous tumblrite you are responding to are doing this -- just reacting to what I feel in the ~fandom zeitgeist~).
no subject
Date: 2023-12-20 06:52 pm (UTC)Fandoms act SO weird about parent characters (I feel like you see a bit of this with Finwe discourse too) but especially for mother characters. I've seen people criticize Anaire and Earwen for not following their GROWN CHILDREN into the rebellion of the Noldor. I don't know what it is about mother characters that brings out people's deadest takes, but boy don't they.
no subject
Date: 2023-12-21 04:23 pm (UTC)I have… not seen that about Anairë and Eärwen, but oh boy, do I believe they exist. As a separate issue, I think there's an overall disinterest in the brokenness of Aman after the Flight, which is totally understandable considering the much more fiery and dramatic brokenness of Beleriand, but which does intrigue me as a fan writer. There's a lot to be said about those who make the choice to stay behind and deal with that, rather than leaving the mess behind for others to clean up or not. "Being left" is not a position of much agency, but "choosing to stay" is, and is an interesting one.
no subject
Date: 2023-12-29 09:10 pm (UTC)Yeah, I totally get why the focus is on Beleriand. I'm slightly biased because my first-ever Silm fic was about Tirion after the rebellion because it IS so interesting to me what these Elves who stayed behind did, how they put their world back together (or didn't) after such upheaval.
The treatment of Anaire and Earwen as if they "abandoned" their children is one of those protagonist-goggles things that makes me roll my eyes SO hard...as if all their kid aren't grown-ass adults making their own choices!