In the matter of the line of Feanor v. the line of Thingol

[rocky41_7]

Tumblr post here.

Anonymous said: I am on the feanorians side of the silmaril debate and do see Dior and elwing as thieves. And I hope you dont see this as an attack i just want to explain my reasoning for the way i see it. But to me at least the stealing of the ships is an entirely seperate thing that happened, I know it happened because the silmarils got stolen in the first place. But it has nothing to do with the Dior and elwing part of the silmaril story. And thats why I dont bring up the stealing of the ships when talking about this

And I feel like Dior and elwing are thieves because they have the feanorians most treasured family heirloom and are refusing to give it back to them. And I think calling them thieves isnt exactly right because they didnt steal it from the feanorians and luthien and beren didnt either but it is wrong of them to not give it back. And the feanorians did first write letters asking to be given the silmaril back. The feanorians were wrong in kinslaying to try and get it back, but I do understand how they got to the conclusion to do so. They swore an oath to get it back and if they dont they will be in purgatory forever, so they really do have this need of getting it back even without considering the fact that its rightfully theirs to begin with.

As for for Dior and elwings part in this, I have more understanding for Dior than elwing. Dior is a new king and not well known to his people. And the silmaril to him represent a great deed done by his parents and their love for each other and I wouldnt be suprised if the silmaril was starting to become as important to Dior and his people as it was to the feanorians. So him not giving it away makes sense it has personal importance to him and giving it away could mark him as a weak king which is not something he needs. And it is also the fact that we dont know how much he knows about the feanorians oath and what it means he may know nothing at all about it.

Elwing on the other hand is completely different, I do not understand why she does the things she does at all. I will just be discussing the lead up to the kinslaying and not what happens during it, because I have read posts saying that her mental health may have crumbled during it and I do concede they have a point. But that doesnt explain any of the lead up to it. The feanorians ask for the silmaril and she tells them no and its like doesnt she realize that just like last time this can lead to a kinslaying, like does the thought even enter her mind and I dont understand how she could not see it as the likely outcome bu then she doesnt prepare for the eventuality at all. Its so puzzling to me, shes the leader and responible for the safety of everyone there but she doesnt seem to care about it. She doesnt even send her sons to cirdan were they would be safe from the feanorians. For elwing this has all happened before and she does nothing to change what will happen and it doesnt make sense.

So yea im on the feanorians side in this because the silmaril is rightfully theirs and while they did bad bad things to get them back i understand where they are coming from. Something i dont understand with elwing.

I said:

Hey anon, I definitely don’t see this as an attack; I do appreciate your reasonable tone here.

If you’re interested in other more detailed explorations of Elwing and her motivations, definitely check out my Elwing meta tag, because others on on tumblr have done some great work there.

The point I think the other anon was making about the swan ships is that fans can be very quick to condemn Luthien and her descendants as “thieves” of the Silmarils, but say nothing about the Feanorians’ theft of the swan ships. No, the events aren’t related, but one is a much clearer-cut case of theft than the other, yet it’s the one that’s swept under the rug to attack those who stand in opposition to the sons of Feanor (SoF). But you’re right, it’s not relevant to discussing Dior and Elwing in relation to the SoF.

Luthien and Beren, at great personal risk, obtained a Silmaril from Morgoth. I think it’s relevant to note that at this point, the SoF appeared to have no problem with Luthien having possession of the Silmaril. In fact, Maedhros takes heart from their success and by it is inspired to begin his efforts which culminate in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.

First, let’s recall Luthien’s history with the Feanorians at the point that she and Beren depart Doriath after Beren is restored to life:

• Luthien is aware of the Kinslaying at Alqualonde and the theft of the swan ships, actions of shocking violence by Elves against Elves, and the Noldor’s part in trying to conceal it from her parents.
• Celegorm and Curufin feign friendship with her when she encounters them on her quest to rescue Beren, only to then trap her in Nargothrond. Celegorm plans to wed her against her will, which strongly implies he also means to rape her, in order to force Thingol to open the Girdle to the Feanorians.
• Celegorm and Curufin overthrew Finrod’s chosen successor, Orodreth, and the Arafinweans had been friends of Doriath. She may or may not be aware that Celegorm used the oath to threaten the residents of Nargothrond, implicitly threatening violence against them.
• After Luthien has escaped and rescued Beren from Sauron, she encounters Celegorm and Curufin again. Curufin attempts to kidnap her, and Celegorm then attempts to kill Beren when he leaps to her defense.
• Celegorm openly makes threats against Thingol and Doriath.

So at this point, you can perhaps see why Luthien does not feel a lot of need to play nice with the SoF. From her perspective, they’re pretty scummy people who are more than willing to commit violent acts against other Elves. At no point does Maedhros reprimand or punish Celegorm or Curufin for their actions, which as the leader of the Feanorians, suggests he doesn’t think what they did was wrong. Why should she cooperate with them? They didn’t risk their lives to obtain one of their Silmarils. If the Silmarils were as important to them as they claim, why haven’t they tried harder? She and Beren, with far fewer resources, managed to do it.

Additionally, the Feanorians do not make any effort to reclaim the Silmaril from Luthien during her life. Possibly because she took down Morgoth (briefly).

“For while Luthien wore the Necklace of the Dwarves no Elf would dare to assail her…” (Of the Ruin of Doriath)

So she dies and the Silmaril goes to Dior, her son.

To Dior, the Feanorians are the unquestioned villains of his parents’ story. These are people who openly threatened his grandfather’s kingdom, who tried to force his mother into marriage and imprisoned her, who tried to kill his father. Sure, you can argue that they have an ancestral claim on the Silmaril–but cannot Dior also make that argument at this point? And what motivation does he have to cooperate with them? They do nothing to win his friendship, as they have done nothing to win the friendship of Doriath throughout their time in Beleriand. If Maedhros is such a formidable diplomat, why can he not come to terms with Dior?

“They [the Feanorians] came at unawares in the middle of winter, and fought with Dior in the Thousand Caves…” (Of the Ruin of Doriath, emphasis added)

Furthermore, to your point, Dior is a young king–and a mortal among Elves. Doriath is also recovering from the war with Nogrod; they are already in a vulnerable position, and with Melian gone, the Girdle is down, so they are far more exposed than they are accustomed to being and having to adjust to that.

So Dior does not relinquish the Silmaril, and rather than pursue the two held by Morgoth, the Feanorians assault Doriath, kill many Elves, throw at least two children out into the woods to die of exposure, and still fail to capture the Silmaril.

So Dior dies and the Silmaril goes to Elwing, his daughter.

Consider what the Feanorians represent to Elwing at this point.

These are Elves who have shown themselves to be unrepentant killers. We as the fans love to focus on the tormented regret of the Feanorians, but to their victims, they are simply killers. They committed slaughter in the Blessed Realm, for which they were exiled by the Valar, and for which they have expressed such regrets–except that they’ve gone and done the same thing here in Beleriand. They have threatened forced marriage, they have killed children, they have driven the Iathrim from their home and made them refugees. To Elwing personally, they are the murderers of her parents and the ones who dragged her brothers into the woods as children and left them to die.

What, precisely, might motivate Elwing to cooperate with them? So the Silmaril “belongs” to them–so what? They have tormented Luthien’s line for generations now–the Feanorians ARE the Morgoth of Elwing’s story. And she should give into them why? The Ring belongs to Sauron–should Frodo hand it over because it’s his property?
Maedhros, who has apparently lost all diplomatic veneer, does nothing to show good faith or a desire to cooperate with Elwing. Instead, he writes with his demands, as he did with Dior.

The one thing–the ONE thing–that might make Elwing cooperate is, to me, solely to avoid another slaughter as happened in Doriath, as you mentioned. So in this vein, why doesn’t Elwing surrender the Silmaril just to avoid trouble, even if she hates and distrusts the Feanorians? There are two things which are absolutely key to understanding this decision.

1. Elwing does not make the decision alone. Critics of Elwing often act as though she made a unilateral decision to withhold the Silmaril from the Feanorians–which is not the case. In fact, Tolkien writes that “Elwing and the people of Sirion” refused to yield the jewel under threat.

This is not an unusual response. Most people do not respond well to being threatened, and may refuse out of spite. Furthermore, these are people who were made refugees by the same people now making demands of them.
But more importantly, Elwing did not alone choose to keep the Silmaril. She and whatever Sirionites aided her in governing decided together that they would not give in to the Feanorians.

2. The second is that the Sirionites believed the Silmaril was protecting Earendil and the Havens. Remember that at this time, Earendil is seeking for Aman, to obtain the help of the Valar in defeating Morgoth. So not only is he the lord of the Havens at Sirion, but he is on a quest which is, to them, of critical importance. They need him to stay safe so that he can complete his mission and hopefully win Beleriand’s rescue.

And to your point about Dior above–this Silmaril is effectively a family heirloom to Elwing as well.

The Sirionites are particularly loath to part with the Silmaril while Earendil is at sea–which makes sense, as he is a ruling lord of this city, and they believe his protection is somewhat dependent on their possession of the Silmaril.

But the Feanorians don’t wait for Earendil to return to negotiate–they lay siege to the Havens at Sirion while Earendil is still away (“For the sons of Feanor that yet lived came down suddenly upon the exiles of Gondolin, and the remnant of Doriath” Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath, emphasis added) and render the Iathrim virtually extinct as a people. Once again, they come down “suddenly” on another group of Elves and destroy them.
What the Feanorians do in the Havens at Sirion is so awful (“the cruelest of the slayings of Elf by Elf”) that their own troops stand aside or even turn against them during the fight in an effort to defend the Sirionites; the Feanorians kill them too.

This, to me, tells us how far the Feanorians are from attempting any real diplomatic work here. They are not even considering the Silmarils that Morgoth still has; they have utterly failed to reach Elwing in a diplomatic or cooperative manner; they refuse to even wait until Earendil has returned so that he and Elwing can make a decision together, as joint rulers of this city.

Why doesn’t Elwing fortify the Havens? We have no evidence that she doesn’t. Only that it wasn’t enough to stop the Feanorians. Why doesn’t she send Elrond and Elros away? That poses its own risks–and she may believe they are safest there, as the Sirionites believe the Silmaril is protecting the Havens. It may be incorrect, but it is something they believe and they operate under that belief.

But even if you think she didn’t do things she should have–does that justify the actions of the Feanorians? It’s fine for them to murder because their victims didn’t do enough to prevent them from murdering? You took our object so we can kill you for it now?

Putting all that aside for now, I want to jump over to the oath, because you mentioned something interesting about it:

They swore an oath to get it back and if they dont they will be in purgatory forever

Purgatory and hell do not exist in Ea. What exactly the Feanorians think their “punishment” for breaking the oath will be is unclear, whether it’s just death without the chance for rebirth (as is the case with Feanor, and seems to be the most extreme punishment the Valar can or will enact), or something more. Clearly they put a lot of stock in it–but they also are not totally beyond the notion of breaking it. Maglor himself suggests after the Third Kinslaying that they should abandon the quest and plead their repentance to the Valar, but Maedhros refuses.

Maedhros seems to still believe they may suffer some punishment for breaking it–that Eru might actually hold them to the oath they swore. But Maglor counters with the notion the oath can be voided:

“Yet Maglor held back, saying: ‘If Manwe and Varda themselves deny the fulfillment of an oath to which we named them in witness, is it not made void?’” (Of the Voyage of Earendil)

And of course, why would Manwe and Varda hold them to an oath which has caused so much strife, and which promises to cause more? Why should they desire the Feanorians to be held to an oath which causes them to murder and destroy other Elves? Maedhros refuses, still believing, or at least asserting, that some punishment by Eru awaits if they break the oath. Maglor somewhat grimly points out that given what they’ve done, punishment is their due one way or other other:

“'If none can release us,’ said Maglor, 'then indeed the Everlasting Darkness shall be our lot, whether we keep the oath or break it; but less evil shall we do in the breaking.’” (Of the Voyage of Earendil)

Maglor acknowledges that they have done evil in pursuit of the oath and that they will continue to do evil if they do not choose to set it aside. Furthermore, that if they cannot be excused from the oath, they’re likely to experience punishment either for breaking it or for the things they do in pursuit of it, so it’s all the same in the end anyway. Yet Maedhros and Maglor instead make a free and conscious decision to continue their pursuit of the Silmarils. They are a) well aware that they have done horrible, awful things trying to fulfill this oath; and b) aware that breaking it is an option. They choose not to. They have chosen not to this entire story.

And truthfully, even if they would be condemned to purgatory or whatever, it doesn’t justify what they do. They chose to swear this oath, they have chosen to pursue it, and if they are willing to slaughter whomever they need to to protect themselves from the consequences of their own oaths, that still makes them selfish, wretched people who are willing to sacrifice anyone else to make sure they themselves stay safe.

Even if they were able to obtain the one Silmaril from Elwing, the oath is not fulfilled. Morgoth still has two. Everything they did to Doriath and the Havens at Sirion is worthless without the other two Silmarils, but they did it anyway; and even after the chaos wrought by their actions there, go ahead and slay Eonwe’s guard after the War of Wrath to steal the Silmarils everyone else had rescued from Morgoth.

The Feanorians have done so much wrong that the Silmarils themselves reject them by the end. I don’t know how else the narrative could make it clearer they are in the wrong. Tolkien implies that the oath was wicked from the very start, and always bound to lead the Feanorians into wrongful acts.

Lastly, I will point over at this meta I wrote a few months back about how if the Feanorians had obtained the Silmaril from Elwing, it would likely have doomed Middle-earth to Morgoth’s rule.

In any case, I don’t think anyone who escalates a situation to murder is ever in the right, and certainly not over something like property rights. If you can sympathize with the Feanorians about their perspective, you should be able to consider what the Feanorians are to the perspective of Luthien’s line–and why they are not keen to work together with the Feanorians or give them what they want.
 

Not sure if you found any of this convincing, but I hope it’s something to consider at least!

Comments

[chestnut_pod]

A very measured and detailed response.

[rocky41_7]

Anon appeared to arrive in good faith so I wanted to respond in kind...and although I initially didn't really want to get into it, it turns out I have terminal "must share my opinion" disease.